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Author Topic: For bagholders only  (Read 6762 times)

Offline Gunthar

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For bagholders only
« on: April 09, 2017, 07:22:48 PM »
so this is what i'm starting to test right now, correct me if i'm wrong
 say we have a bag of ETH and the bot is stucked because price is not good to sell and we holding since 2 days
 what i'm going to implement is:
 1.- delete eventual sell order of ETH we have open and unfilled
 2.- calculate the most profitable ETH_XXX pair trading at ETH market in polo
 3.- start pair ETH_XXX
 4.- restart the BTC_ETH pair
 point 3 is on a subaccount
 <\end of theory>
 in this way we wont have a stucked bot anymore because soon as we get bags and stucked, we move those coins in one of the other available markets
 point 2 and 3 can be done differently too
 USDT_ETH or XMR_ETH starting with a "sell" order instead
 and then let the bot continue on that new pair
 opinions, suggestions, insults are welcome,
 thanks!

Offline Unbroken

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2017, 08:06:03 PM »
I've been thinkin same kind of solution for my bags, but one thing that I havent got around is that how to know when you are back in profits with that new pair, (atleast I want to know it and grow my btc stash).

Offline Gunthar

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2017, 08:07:36 PM »
I've been thinkin same kind of solution for my bags, but one thing that I havent got around is that how to know when you are back in profits with that new pair, (atleast I want to know it and grow my btc stash).

THe bot would calculate BTC value of (say) ETH and place an immediate sell order in the USDT_ETH "at profit" based on that calculation

Offline Unbroken

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2017, 08:28:50 PM »
That sounds great. If the bot does that too.  :D

Other thing I've been thinking is that i just make a new account in polo/kraken... sell my bags with loss and start trading in btc market and try to remember and keep in mind that amount of btc what is spent on those bags.
This way it's easy to know when "bags" are in profit. thisway i dont even have to mind what bag is what and what price bought, just count the price you payed (.02btc eth+.04 dash=> .06btc) sell at market let the bot do its job and wait for it to get back at .06btc, after that you are back in track...

But that is then obsolete if bot can handle the profit calculating..
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 08:31:10 PM by Unbroken »

Offline dobcrypto

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2017, 11:08:46 PM »
Its very good idea, smf like this i thought too
It would be very good if these manipulations took place on the same account.
Bot would look at the pairs, which can cause a contradiction with "bagCoin"/"coin_to_profit" and if "coin_to_profit" are basically trading pair, bot will decide what is best to do:
1) Stop basically trading pair with BTC/"coin_to_profit" so that "bagCoin"/"coin_to_profit" be fulfilled.
Then
a)run again basically trading pair with BTC/"coin_to_profit".
b)no run basically trading pair with BTC/"coin_to_profit".
 
2) Find better pair "bagCoin"/"coin_to_profit" which are not running basically.
« Last Edit: April 09, 2017, 11:10:34 PM by dobcrypto »

Offline mettalmag

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2017, 11:31:18 PM »
It would be super good if all of this would happen on one account but anyways any solution is great

Offline docta

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2017, 07:19:36 AM »
what a damn good idea!

thanks for always bringing out such great ideas and upgrades!

Offline xith

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #7 on: April 10, 2017, 07:55:41 AM »
Wouldnt this lead to bagception? Holding bags (e.g. ETH-GNT) that belong to the ETH-BTC bag?


Offline docta

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2017, 05:50:13 PM »
lol bagception hahahaha

ok.  this is a great idea.  really it is.

what it demonstrates is an understanding that if you're left holding eth bags after prices drop, that your value that's trapped inside that eth should be liberated so that it can be used to make more profits again as opposed to sitting forever trapped inside that low-value eth.

however, trading those bagged eth on the ETH_OTHERS market isn't the solution. 

First of all, there aren't many coins to trade there--if you sell it back into btc, then you can then buy anything on the BTC_OTHERS market.  The reason that this idea is so tempting though is because we have a mental block to just selling the damn coins that no longer want.  this is a purely mental creation whereby you want to hold onto the idea that you didn't actually lose anything....because if i hold onto these bags, one day the price will go up and i can get back all the btc i paid for this coin in the first place.

it's a very commonly-held belief.  and i can see where it would be especially difficult to let go of it when you're coding for a logical bot responsible for buying and selling.

but put quite simply--selling those bags back into btc is NOT taking a loss.  the loss has already occurred.  previous values may or may not ever return.  for people who don't know what they're doing, hodling is often THE SMARTEST decision.  because they're going to lose money no matter what they buy/sell.  the more active they are, the more they lose.  so for beginners and those who don't want to spend all their time researching and watching charts, then hodling is a great option.  but doing it for the sake of doing it because you dont want to admit that you lost money when eth tanked is just clinging to a belief that isn't real.

 as someone who recently discovered this in an epiphany that led to an immediate liquidation of all my shitcoin bags, i can see exactly where this idea comes from and how it's useful as an adjunct to the desire to never sell at a loss.  the next logical conclusion is to realize that you can accomplish the exact same thing (but better) by selling all those eth into btc.

  how would this concept of lost value bag liquidation be incorporated into the bot?  i have no clue.  perhaps it couldn't ever be incorporated in.  but then again, if the bot required no human interaction then why are we even here?  there is a certain point where a bot becomes so efficient that no one will ever make any profit again ever.  whats the difference in 4 perfect trading bots and 500?  eventually they will all zero each other out and that's when we will have to build a  "humans-only" exchange to reintroduce variability into our lives.
« Last Edit: April 10, 2017, 05:55:40 PM by docta »

Offline Nicnicy

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2017, 08:18:54 PM »


wel I have done it

I sold my bag ETH 0.19102735 (BTC_ETH) over to ETH_ETC 3.12376692 ETC then sold back over BTC_ETC
-> 2 hops, only if the present btc value > coinhop1 AND btcvalue coinhop1 > coinhop2, to get the outcome higherbtc when, coinhop2 is sold back to BTCcoin - I did this manual seeking in a quick timespan any 2 coins in an otherthenbtc market that uptrend in btcvalue (all values in polo are validated in btc)

The inbetween uptrading increased the amount of btc (not talking about the value of btc here!).



works only if you can find a higher 3way trade to get back home
- a negative is Polo book does not understand what i have done, I did not closed the book clean - it is not like accounting where you write a journal entry to close multiple ledger, polo only keeps buys and sells together from 1 pair.


In my mind I am trading with a jar of colored marbles
at the end of the day I only count how many green marbles I have
I keep hold of how many marbles i have in my btc balance
 the other colors are just looking pretty in the jar on other balances.


If my view on the world would change tomorrow, and I developed a fetish for
blue and red marbles next to my green, then my strategy of how I trade would change.


Adapting love for more marbles would increase my frequency for hitting a success buy.
In the end I am exchanging all eventually into EURO (I am Dutch and live and spend in the Netherlands)  so the ULTIMATE trade would be the time when  my dollar cryptocard hits the ATM machine to convert to Euro cash to buy our groceries.

The real dynamic is between  USD/EUR/JPY  -  BTC   -  ETH/ETC/XMR  -  ALTCOINS

at this moment we collect BTC amount to index and relate to other
we should have an automatic chart reader to collect all data to measure the shortest/most profitable hops.
Mind You that this "bagholding" is also on purpose created by the market, that was the start of this discussion and on how to think up strategies to get out under this condition.
when the buy and sell signal is kept on a level on purpose You do not gain
by buying into a coin with btc when the btc value is less then you can sell the coin for at a profit. - and you are not selling back to btc so You are kept hostage until you surrender because you feeling psychological uncomfortable loosing out on other opportunities and this of course was the whole joke to squeeze the coins out of you.

what can you do
1 surrender - take loss fast and move on fast to do better more often
2 wait  - what goes down will come up so keep sell order
3 wait and fund fresh btc making other trades
4 move alt balance to lending stick minimum 2days agains x% (official not your money at that point)
5 sell at a psychological round number (does not work with robotpumpers)
6 hop via possible other market pair then back to BTC


any other suggestions ?
I have suggested a hailgun strategy



 
Nic.







Offline docta

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #10 on: April 11, 2017, 04:43:49 AM »
lol "polo doesn't understand what i've done"  --  that could be my signature  :D
great post!  i agree with your "what you can do" list.

however, do you not agree with what i was saying about doing this lateral side-trade is no different than just selling your eth and buying something else with btc?

the only advantage would be to save you fees from converting back to btc right?  because the other 'advantages' are merely mental/organizational in nature (i.e. "i can't bear the thought of selling at a loss") and the disadvantages have to do with the limited number of coins available to the ETH_ALTCOIN market.

It seems to me that the only way this technique could be useful would be in situations where the markets aren't in equilibrium....meaning that you'd be doing arbitrage from inside polo.  i admit that i haven't researched arbitrage opportunities within poloniex's markets, but i'd be surprised to find that it has much potential

Offline criptonauta

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #11 on: April 11, 2017, 04:49:00 AM »

The real dynamic is between  USD/EUR/JPY  -  BTC   -  ETH/ETC/XMR  -  ALTCOINS


Nice plan. Sad that only using Polo do not allow the "Turing complete" hehe

With this, we'd back to arbitrage, and this now might be interesting, different from alt-exchanges arbitrage.

Other FOREX to USD and then USD - BTC in 1trader
BTC to Alts in one of the exchanges Gunbot operates

However, we are back to arbitrage main problem: fees.
1Broker - 0.0015 BTC per BTC withdrawal. No other fees
Polo - 15% / 25% + BTC withdrawal + miners' fee on withdrawal

Using 1Broker would make this strategy only available to >=1BTC trades.

However, it might still be valid.

Gun's calculator is needed more than ever. :D
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Offline Chill Pill

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #12 on: April 11, 2017, 08:06:05 AM »
Wouldnt this lead to bagception?

Man I'm dying ahahaha

Offline zardos

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Re: For bagholders only
« Reply #13 on: April 11, 2017, 09:13:47 AM »
 :)

All I have to say on this thread at this time....
AKA Kevin Crane